Post a question. If you have either a response and/or a good quotation, feel free to add those too.
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Anonymous
said...
My question is about Tereza’s dreams in chapter 8, on pages 18-19. The first dream that is described, about the women and the swimming pool, seems to signify the power Tomas holds over Tereza, and the power men hold over women in general. The next dream, though, was more puzzling to me. The two dreams are similar in that Tereza is surrounded by many women, but other than the number of women versus the lack of men, I was unable to really come to a conclusion about the meaning of this other dream (the one about the dead, talking women). What is significant about the number of women versus the number of men in her dreams? What is this dream saying about women, and about Tereza?
Hi, Katie. I am with you on your question there, but I'll try to say what I thought of it. During the dream, women tell Tereza that she has died, and though she insists that she feels alive, they tell her that this is the way it will be for a long time--she will go on feeling these feelings, like needing to pee, for a long time, but they aren't real any longer. I see this as Tereza unconsciously feeling that, going on the way she is in her relationship with Tomas, she is not really living, and the women (his mistresses) are mocking her, telling her that she can't lie to herself any longer. One day she will wake up, too old to have children or live the life she wanted, but she will have wasted her time being a nervous wreck over Tomas' clear lack of (or in the very least faulty) compassion.
My question is sort of a summary of multiple questions: what is the significance of Tomas' lack of compassion for Tereza at the very end? Do his feelings reflect the sacrifice (the "weight" one must bear) of his coming back, ultimately revealing his love and understanding that he has been wrong, or do they suggest he does not really love her at all, as one cannot feel this way about someone one truly respects and is willing to put first?
A quotation for thought:
"He lacked the strength to control his taste for other women. Besides, he failed to see the need. No one knew better than he how little his exploits threatened Tereza. Why then give them up? He saw no more reason for that than to deny himself soccer matches" (21).
Only a few pages earlier, Tomas had been exhibiting his own jealousy. How, then, he manages to think it's only important that he recognize the "harmlessness" of his escapades, giving no thought to Tereza's sanity, is beyond me. This is a classic case of a gender double-standard to me. Also, this quotation brings up a (sort of) parallel: Tomas' weakness for tawdry relationships and Tereza's mental (and sometimes physical) weakness/sickness. It is not Tomas' blatant domination of her that keeps her subdued ("weighed" down?) in this relationship but his own weaknesses and clear disregard.
My group talked today about how although Tomas repeatedly cheats on his wife, we tend to sympathize with him and pass his actions off as 'okay.' I was even annoyed with Tereza; I thought she was pathetic for staying with him. Why does she let him do this to her?
In part 2, we discover the meaning of her dreams (Katie's question), and why they scared her: "[Tomas], too, had drawn an equal sign between her and the rest of them, [...] made absolutely no distinction between Tereza's body and the other bodies," the world she had "tried to escape" by leaving her mother. Since Tomas' affairs "expose her powerlessness," Tereza is tempted to go back to her mother. But isn't her mother the one who originally made Tereza feel "equal" to all others? Wouldn't she feel just as powerless at home? Both Tereza's mother's actions and Tomas' actions (the actions of both men and women) leave her feeling weak.
I guess an overall question that ties together these separate thoughts (but not really) is: how are we supposed to read Tereza? Is she truly powerless (she does have significant control over Tomas' state of mind), or is she in fact strong for staying? And is she representative of all women, or is she an exception?
I decided to focus on the passage on page 71, when Tereza and the Swiss photographer argue over women's freedom from men. Tereza did not become a photographer and take her photos for Tomas, and when she tells the woman that she doesn't want to take pictures of the cacti because Tomas supports her, it seems like a casual excuse. However, when the woman attacks this by saying that Tereza won't be fulfilled because she won't be leading her own life, Tereza becomes more adamant, arguing that her "husband is [her] life, not cactuses" and that "of course [she's] happy!" Yet at the end of this passage, when the woman tells her that she is anachronistic in her beliefs, Tereza agrees, saying that Tomas says the same.
In saying that Tomas agrees with the woman that Tereza is out-of-date, so to speak, is Tereza referencing the burden she places on Tomas by being so dependent? Does Tereza actually believe in what she is saying, or is she arguing more as a matter of pride, and wanting to be right? Or maybe even wanting it to be true? Is there a 'right' and a 'wrong' to how women should lead there lives? Is it bad that she clings to Tomas - that she is weight - and if so, would she be better - lighter? - if she was more like Tomas? Would you say that the woman, who says herself that if Tereza can be happy about being dependent on Tomas then she must be anachronistic (chronologically misplaced), is a feminist? If so, how would this play into how Kundera himself views women, and how they are displayed as a whole in the novel?
I have a lot of questions at this point, but I just wanted to add one more scene that I'm curious about as a whole with regard to its place in the feminist lens - the scene with Sabina and Tereza. Any thoughts?
Hahahaha Erika! (Embarrassed face.) I was hoping someone would address that scene, because it is unfortunately all too relevant to a feminist reading.
I'd like to point out two things here:
1) The bowler hat sits on a mannequin head. The narrator says, "Sabina's wig stand sported a bowler hat rather than a wig" (64). What can we make of this? A bowler hat--what MEN like Chaplin wore--sits on a stand made for a feminine accessory, a wig. How does this relate to our reading of Sabina?
2) When Tereza and Sabina take photographs of each other, Sabina orders Tereza to "strip!" Tereza likes this: "obeying never failed to arouse her" (66). Are we supposed to view Tereza as just another submissive female? And why, then, is she more aroused that "the command came not from a man but from a woman"?
5 comments:
My question is about Tereza’s dreams in chapter 8, on pages 18-19. The first dream that is described, about the women and the swimming pool, seems to signify the power Tomas holds over Tereza, and the power men hold over women in general. The next dream, though, was more puzzling to me. The two dreams are similar in that Tereza is surrounded by many women, but other than the number of women versus the lack of men, I was unable to really come to a conclusion about the meaning of this other dream (the one about the dead, talking women). What is significant about the number of women versus the number of men in her dreams? What is this dream saying about women, and about Tereza?
Hi, Katie. I am with you on your question there, but I'll try to say what I thought of it. During the dream, women tell Tereza that she has died, and though she insists that she feels alive, they tell her that this is the way it will be for a long time--she will go on feeling these feelings, like needing to pee, for a long time, but they aren't real any longer. I see this as Tereza unconsciously feeling that, going on the way she is in her relationship with Tomas, she is not really living, and the women (his mistresses) are mocking her, telling her that she can't lie to herself any longer. One day she will wake up, too old to have children or live the life she wanted, but she will have wasted her time being a nervous wreck over Tomas' clear lack of (or in the very least faulty) compassion.
My question is sort of a summary of multiple questions: what is the significance of Tomas' lack of compassion for Tereza at the very end? Do his feelings reflect the sacrifice (the "weight" one must bear) of his coming back, ultimately revealing his love and understanding that he has been wrong, or do they suggest he does not really love her at all, as one cannot feel this way about someone one truly respects and is willing to put first?
A quotation for thought:
"He lacked the strength to control his taste for other women. Besides, he failed to see the need. No one knew better than he how little his exploits threatened Tereza. Why then give them up? He saw no more reason for that than to deny himself soccer matches" (21).
Only a few pages earlier, Tomas had been exhibiting his own jealousy. How, then, he manages to think it's only important that he recognize the "harmlessness" of his escapades, giving no thought to Tereza's sanity, is beyond me. This is a classic case of a gender double-standard to me. Also, this quotation brings up a (sort of) parallel: Tomas' weakness for tawdry relationships and Tereza's mental (and sometimes physical) weakness/sickness. It is not Tomas' blatant domination of her that keeps her subdued ("weighed" down?) in this relationship but his own weaknesses and clear disregard.
My group talked today about how although Tomas repeatedly cheats on his wife, we tend to sympathize with him and pass his actions off as 'okay.' I was even annoyed with Tereza; I thought she was pathetic for staying with him. Why does she let him do this to her?
In part 2, we discover the meaning of her dreams (Katie's question), and why they scared her: "[Tomas], too, had drawn an equal sign between her and the rest of them, [...] made absolutely no distinction between Tereza's body and the other bodies," the world she had "tried to escape" by leaving her mother. Since Tomas' affairs "expose her powerlessness," Tereza is tempted to go back to her mother. But isn't her mother the one who originally made Tereza feel "equal" to all others? Wouldn't she feel just as powerless at home? Both Tereza's mother's actions and Tomas' actions (the actions of both men and women) leave her feeling weak.
I guess an overall question that ties together these separate thoughts (but not really) is: how are we supposed to read Tereza? Is she truly powerless (she does have significant control over Tomas' state of mind), or is she in fact strong for staying? And is she representative of all women, or is she an exception?
I decided to focus on the passage on page 71, when Tereza and the Swiss photographer argue over women's freedom from men. Tereza did not become a photographer and take her photos for Tomas, and when she tells the woman that she doesn't want to take pictures of the cacti because Tomas supports her, it seems like a casual excuse. However, when the woman attacks this by saying that Tereza won't be fulfilled because she won't be leading her own life, Tereza becomes more adamant, arguing that her "husband is [her] life, not cactuses" and that "of course [she's] happy!" Yet at the end of this passage, when the woman tells her that she is anachronistic in her beliefs, Tereza agrees, saying that Tomas says the same.
In saying that Tomas agrees with the woman that Tereza is out-of-date, so to speak, is Tereza referencing the burden she places on Tomas by being so dependent?
Does Tereza actually believe in what she is saying, or is she arguing more as a matter of pride, and wanting to be right? Or maybe even wanting it to be true?
Is there a 'right' and a 'wrong' to how women should lead there lives? Is it bad that she clings to Tomas - that she is weight - and if so, would she be better - lighter? - if she was more like Tomas?
Would you say that the woman, who says herself that if Tereza can be happy about being dependent on Tomas then she must be anachronistic (chronologically misplaced), is a feminist? If so, how would this play into how Kundera himself views women, and how they are displayed as a whole in the novel?
I have a lot of questions at this point, but I just wanted to add one more scene that I'm curious about as a whole with regard to its place in the feminist lens - the scene with Sabina and Tereza. Any thoughts?
Hahahaha Erika! (Embarrassed face.) I was hoping someone would address that scene, because it is unfortunately all too relevant to a feminist reading.
I'd like to point out two things here:
1) The bowler hat sits on a mannequin head. The narrator says, "Sabina's wig stand sported a bowler hat rather than a wig" (64). What can we make of this? A bowler hat--what MEN like Chaplin wore--sits on a stand made for a feminine accessory, a wig. How does this relate to our reading of Sabina?
2) When Tereza and Sabina take photographs of each other, Sabina orders Tereza to "strip!" Tereza likes this: "obeying never failed to arouse her" (66). Are we supposed to view Tereza as just another submissive female? And why, then, is she more aroused that "the command came not from a man but from a woman"?
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